Mixing film stocks

[Susie Sahara]

I just found out that my school does have Final Cut Pro on some computers and they have Firewire so I can transfer footage and edit.

This option seems practical. I don't want to cut and splice the "old-fashioned" way. Now, my problem is, I have several rolls of K40 shot but I want to experiment with negative stock as well. Would it be a mistake to mix stocks if I'm going to be editing on the computer? I assume Final Cut has some kind of filter so that I can minimize any weird grain or potential lighting problems.

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[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Susie Sahara:
I just found out that my school does have Final Cut Pro on some computers and they have Firewire so I can transfer footage and edit.

This option seems practical. I don't want to cut and splice the "old-fashioned" way. Now, my problem is, I have several rolls of K40 shot but I want to experiment with negative stock as well. Would it be a mistake to mix stocks if I'm going to be editing on the computer? I assume Final Cut has some kind of filter so that I can minimize any weird grain or potential lighting problems.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would try and stay with K40 if you want decent grain and nice colors. Ektachrome dropped out to black and white makes a pretty decent Tri-X substitute. Personally, I wouldn't intermix them.

On a different note, since you now have access to Final Cut Pro, then could use the technique I mentioned in your other topic about shooting off a monitor by changing the playback speed of the clip to 25% on an NLE system and copying it at 6fps.

Roger

[Susie Sahara]

thanks, Roger.
I was thinking though of experiementing with Pro 8's color negative stock. Don't they have something that is rated at 50 ASA? Would that be a problem to mix with the K40 or am I living a pipe dream?

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[Alex]

Probably won't match if you are making a movie with scenes acted by actors unless you really understand how to adjust all of your video parameters, ideally done with a waveform and vector scope.

However the 50 ASA is a good choice for Kodachrome 40 matching.

If the purpose of the project is too learn, than by all means, shoot different stocks.

Ask the professor if it's OK to experiment without it adversely affecting your grade.

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Alex

[8th Man]

I've always wondered how well k40 ranks compared with 50 neg. asa under the same conditions. So, I have both in my fridge now and plan on doing a side by side test of them for transfer.
Should I expose them evenly, or should I over expose the neg and under expose the reversal for optimum results?

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PRM

[Susie Sahara]

Well...don't laugh. But I was really intrigued by the mixing of film stocks and lighting and filters and all used in "Traffic" and I wan't to experiement with different scenes that way. To show one setting entirely shot in K40, another possibly with the Pro 8mm 50 ASA stock and maybe throw in some grainy Tri-x for a flashback scene. Something like that.
Has anyone else around here tried that in the S8 format?

SS

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[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 8th Man:

Should I expose them evenly, or should I over expose the neg and under expose the reversal for optimum results?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lets say your framed shot has a dynamic range of 4 f-stops. Meaning the brightest thing in the shot is 4 stops hotter, or brighter, than the darkest thing in your shot.

Don't expose for either the brightest or darkest thing in the shot, unless that is the key component in your frame that you are featuring.

As a general rule, most shots where you can't totally control your light sources will have hot spots in the shot that are brighter than your actors face.

As a result, exposing for these bright spots in this specific situation would be the wrong thing to do, because it will lead to your performers face being to dark, unless your actor will be directly in this hot spot.

So the simple rule is always expose for the most important element in your shot.

If you use the meter on your camera as a sort of "spot meter" by zooming into an actors face, remember that the 18% gray the meter uses to set an exposure value will cause it to underexpose a caucasian or asian face by up to one stop, and over expose an african-american face by up to 1 stop.

If you have no actors in your shot, and just want to take a wide shot... normally, the camera's exposure meter will react to the sky's brightness and usually underexpose your setting by 1/2 to 1 & 1/4 stop.

This can actually look spectacular if your goal is to try and blue up the sky.

However, objects on the ground, that are darker, may not come out to your liking.

So again, you should choose what is more important to you, the sky, or the objects located on the ground in front of the sky, when using the auto exposure meter on the camera.

Again, when shooting without actors in the scene, remember to slightly favor the portion of the frame that is more important to you (either the sky or the foreground) when metering with your camera, then lock the exposure meter, and reframe your shot to your liking.



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Alex

[crimsonson]

I love mixing stocks. If you are doing a traditional narative, a la Hollywood, most people would not recommend it. Since you are using Super8, I thinks its safe to say you are not making a Hollywood flic . Thus, experiment! Why emulate when you can stimulate?

BTW- even with Vectorscopes and waveforms - remember what they say in the video industry (applies to film too),

"GIGO!"

Garbage in garbage out.
scopes and waveforms can only correct to a certain level.

IMHO
Ektachrome has always been associated with documentary filmmaking - it has a grainy less saturated feel to it.

K40 - has a pre 1980s look to it. Its slow as hell but I like using it for extended exposure type shots

Plus X- Slow as hell also, but gives the best B&W grain size - small comapred to TriX

TriX- sigbificantly faster than PlusX thus easier to use in most situations but ggrainy like Ekta.

If you really want to experiment with mix stocks - Pro8mm has some negative stocks from 50-500 ASA.

I'm planning to do a short soon and want to utilize about 4-6 stocks.

Keep us informed (maybe sample footages?)!

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[mattias]

>Lets say your framed shot has a dynamic range of 4 f-stops.

wishful thinking. hardly even a white wall is that flat. ;-)

anyway, i think your exposure theory is pretty good, but for results that look really good and are easier to edit/match, you really have to use some creative "lighting" to bring the levels together somewhat, even if you're shooting outdoors.

a good starting point is to take a reading of the background (since it usually can't be lit, unless you have huge mirrors), and then try to match the actors to that. the low budget way of doing this is to first block the action so that the sun always falls from a good angle to act as key, or often even better as backlight, then flag off any disturbing highlights and use reflectors to fill the shadows. if the background is dark, you can flag the sun off your subject altogether, and light with reflectors only.

if you're shooting k40, there shouldn't be a bigger difference than three stops between your strongest light (usually your back light which is the sun) and the fill, or you will get either blow outs or black shadows. and don't forget to keep the contrast ratio between the background and the actors fairly constant.

/matt